i think you're right, look at michelle obama. ann romney. i spent time with both of them. they are both top notch, both of them. nobody can argue about that. it does give you as lara says a look at what their husband believes. >> i think that's important. >> it also give ace look into the wife and how they react. >> how people can look at the president or potential president and see what tempers and they are, depending who they choose to be their forever mate. >> if this guys votes -- >> i don't think people vote with their pocketbooks at all. i think they vote with who they feel attracted to. >> as a human being. >> can come all of the way down to their hair cut. >> if your theory is right, clearly obama wins. >> katie couric debuts today. i have a theory. katie aside, the one host format that your dear friend, not just revolutionized, made, is not as relevant anymore. if you don't give people utility during the day, they don't want it. i'm not going to say katie is a failure, is that an old format? nothing to do with katie. we all love katie, gayle. >> when you say utili